I Am A Proud Member of Vets For Freedom

For up to date progress in the War In Iraq, please visit Vets For Freedom, an organization I am proud to be a member in good standing of.

Veteran's Suicide Hot Line Number!

1-800-273-TALK (8255) Call this number if you need help!!

A Vast Collection Of Buzzings At Memeorandum

If you wish to catch a buzz without the usual after affects, CLICK TO MEMEORANDUM. (It will not disturb the current page) That will be all. We now return to regular programming.

This Blog Is Moving

Greetings. After this weekend, this Take Our Country Back Blog will be moving to the new web site. Too many conservatives are getting zapped by the intolerant dweebs of the Obama Goons and seeing that this editing platform is a free site, Blogger can do pretty much what it feels like doing. Hence, I now have a paid site and will be migrating the last 1400+ posts shortly.

So, one day, you just may click this page somewhere and it will show up as "private". It has been fun but the intolerant Czarbie Goon Squads are brain dead idiots. They can come play at the new site which I OWN outright.
Showing posts with label Catholic-Islamic Forum. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Catholic-Islamic Forum. Show all posts

Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Instruments of Love and Harmony #3

From Zenit.org comes Final Statement of Catholic-Muslim Forum "Called to Be Instruments of Love and Harmony"
For background information about the meetings, see this Reuters article of 11/06/08.

The statement includes an enumerated list of fifteen points which present a target rich environment In this installment, I'll take on the third point of agreement.[Links & emphasis added.]

Human dignity is derived from the fact that every human person is created by a loving God out of love, and has been endowed with the gifts of reason and free will, and therefore enabled to love God and others. On the firm basis of these principles, the person requires the respect of his or her original dignity and his or her human vocation.

Therefore, he or she is entitled to full recognition of his or her identity and freedom by individuals, communities and governments, supported by civil legislation that assures equal rights and full citizenship.
Lets commence with an examination of what Moe had to say about free will. This will be familiar from the first installment.

The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'Allah, the Blessed, the Exalted, created Adam. Then He stroked his back with His right hand, and progeny issued from it. He said, "I created these for the Garden and they will act with the behaviour of the people of the Garden." Then He stroked his back again and brought forth progeny from him. He said, "I created these for the Fire and they will act with the behaviour of the people of the Fire." 'A man said, 'Messenger of Allah! Then of what value are deeds?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, answered, 'When Allah creates a slave for the Garden, he makes him use the behaviour of the people of the Garden, so that he dies on one of the actions of the people of the Garden and by it He brings him into the Garden. When He creates a slave for the Fire, He makes him use the behaviour of the people of the Fire, so that he dies on one of the actions of the people of the Fire, and by it, He brings him into the Fire.' "[Malik's Muwatta Book 46, Number 46.1.2]
In Moe's creation myth, Allah makes two statements about this matter.
  • "I created these for the Garden and they will act with the behaviour of the people of the Garden."
  • "I created these for the Fire and they will act with the behaviour of the people of the Fire."
So much for free will in Islam, it is obviated. He made some for the fire, they will not be guided, they will be confirmed in their sins unto eternal damnation.
  • And Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. 2:264
  • Allah will not guide them and theirs will be a painful torment. 16:104
Concerning dignity, is there any without free will or without the sanctity of life? Remember what Moe said about the sanctity of our lives?
  • "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Bukhari 1.8.387
We don't have free will, we are either saint's or sinners by arbitrary assignment and our lives are not sacred to Muslims unless we are Muslims. Universal human dignity is a null entity as far as Islam is concerned.

Does Islam agree that we are all entitled to full freedom; equal rights & citizenship ensured by civil legislation? This is impossible because Islam does not recognize civil legislation. Only Allah has the right to rule, delegated to his Messenger, whose word is final. Of course, you doubt me and require proof.
  • 33:36. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.
    • Allah tells us that He is the only One Who has the power to create and make decisions, and there is no one who can dispute with Him in that or reverse His judgement. His saying: (And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses,) means, whatever He wills, for what He wills, happens; and what He does not will, does not happen. All things, good and bad alike, are in His Hands and will return to Him. Allah Alone is the One Who has the Power of Creation, Knowledge and Choice

    • (It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision.) This Ayah is general in meaning and applies to all matters, i.e., if Allah and His Messenger decreed a matter, no one has the right to go against that, and no one has any choice or room for personal opinion in this case. Allah says: (But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.) (4:65) Hence the issue of going against it is addressed in such strong terms, as Allah says: (And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error.) This is like the Ayah: (And let those who oppose the Messenger's commandment, beware, lest some Fitnah should befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them) (24:63). The Reason for Revelation

In the matter of equality: females inherit 50% a male's portion and the testimony of two women is required to equal that of one man.
  • 4:11. Allah commands you as regards your children's (inheritance); to the male, a portion equal to that of two females;...
  • ...And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her.... 2:282
Conquered Jews & Christians who retain their religion under a 'treaty of protection' must make annual extortion payments and are under several limitations, not being allowed to own & carry weapons, build higher than Muslims, build churches, display crosses or pray aloud in public. See the Pact of Umar or Reliance of the Traveller, Book O11.5.

Click this link for A Common Word between Us and You, which precipitated the recent meetings. [Note the Events section, a recent addition to the page]. A Common Word's home page includes a summary, the missive, media reports, blog posts and various responses from Christian & Jewish leaders. Click this link: Islamic Extortion Letter for my original dissection of the missive or this link: Go Burn With Muhammad, a blog devoted to dissecting the missive and reactions to it.

Tuesday, December 9, 2008

Instruments of Love and Harmony

From Zenit.org comes Final Statement of Catholic-Muslim Forum "Called to Be Instruments of Love and Harmony"
For background information about the meetings, see this Reuters article of 11/06/08. Click this link for A Common Word between Us and You, which precipitated the recent meetings. [Note the Events section, a recent addition to the page]. A Common Word's home page includes a summary, the missive, media reports, blog posts and various responses from Christian & Jewish leaders. Click this link: Islamic Extortion Letter for my original dissection of the missive or this link: Go Burn With Muhammad, a blog devoted to dissecting the missive and reactions to it.

The statement includes an enumerated list of fifteen points which present a target rich environment In this installment, I'll take on the first point of agreement.[Links & emphasis added.]

1. For Christians the source and example of love of God and neighbour is the love of Christ for his Father, for humanity and for each person. "God is Love" (1 Jn 4, 16) and "God so loved the world that He gave his only Son so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn 3,16). God's love is placed in the human heart through the Holy Spirit.

It is God who first loves us thereby enabling us to love Him in return. Love does not harm one's neighbour but rather seeks to do to the other what one would want done to oneself (Cf. 1 Cor 13, 4-7). Love is the foundation and sum of all the commandments (Cf. Gal 5, 14).

Love of neighbour cannot be separated from love of God, because it is an expression of our love for God. This is the new commandment, "Love one another as I have loved you." (Jn 15, 12) Grounded in Christ's sacrificial love, Christian love is forgiving and excludes no one; it therefore also includes one's enemies. It should be not just words but deeds (Cf. 1 Jn, 4, 18). This is the sign of its genuineness.

For Muslims, as set out in "A Common Word," love is a timeless transcendent power which guides and transforms human mutual regard.

This love, as indicated by the Holy and Beloved Prophet Muhammad, is prior to the human love for the One True God. A Hadith indicates that God's loving compassion for humanity is even greater than that of a mother for her child (Muslim, Bab al-Tawba: 21); it therefore exists before and independently of the human response to the One who is 'The Loving.' So immense is this love and compassion that God has intervened to guide and save humanity in a perfect way many times and in many places, by sending prophets and scriptures. The last of these books, the Qur'an, portrays a world of signs, a marvellous cosmos of Divine artistry, which calls forth our utter love and devotion, so that 'those who have faith, have most love of God' (2:165), and 'those that believe, and do good works, the Merciful shall engender love among them.' (19:96) In a Hadith we read that 'Not one of you has faith until he loves for his neighbour what he loves for himself' (Bukhari, Bab al-Iman: 13).

Jehovah is love, right? How about Allah? Is love among his 99 named attributes? Jannah.org has a list, with explanations. A search turns up one hit.

# Al-Wadood

* The Loving, The One who loves His believing slaves and His believing slaves love Him. His love to His slaves is His Will to be merciful to them and praise them:Hence it's meaning is related to the attributes of the Will and Kalam (His attribute with which He orders and forbids and spoke to Muhammad and Musa -peace be upon them- . It is not a sound nor a language nor a letter.).

Who does the Qur'an describe Allah as loving?

* who do good deeds 2:110
* Al-Muhsinun (those who do good)
o 2:195
o 3:134
o 3:138
o 5:13
o 5:93
* the clean
o 2:222
o 9:108
* Al-Muttaqun (pious)
o 3:76
o 9:4
o 9:7
* As-Sabirin 3:146 (the patient)
* those who act justly. 5:42
* the equitable
o 49:9
o 60:8
* those who fight in rows 61:4
* who put their trust in him 3:159

A search for Allah loved had no hits in the Qur'an, one in Ibn Kathir's Tafsir. In How Those Who lived a Life of Luxury disbelieved in the Messengers and were misled by Their pursuit of Wealth and Children,[34:39] we learn that wealthy, prolific Kaffirun are being set up for eternal damnation. Allah has no plan of salvation for them.

(but those who were given the worldly wealth and luxuries among them) means, those who enjoyed a life of riches and luxury, and positions of leadership. Qatadah said, "They are their tyrants, chiefs and leaders in evil.'' (We believe not in the (Message) with which you have been sent.) means, `we do not believe in it and we will not follow it.' Allah tells us that those who enjoyed a life of luxury and who disbelieved the Messengers said: (And they say: "We are more in wealth and in children, and we are not going to be punished.'') meaning, they were proud of their great wealth and great numbers of children, and they believed that this was a sign that Allah loved them and cared for them, and that if He gave them this in this world, He would not punish them in the Hereafter. This was too far-fetched. Allah says: (Do they think that in wealth and children with which We enlarge them We hasten unto them with good things. Nay, but they perceive not.) (23:55-56) (So, let not their wealth nor their children amaze you; in reality Allah's plan is to punish them with these things in the life of this world, and that their souls shall depart while they are disbelievers.) (9:55)

Who are Al-Muhsinun, who do good (beloved of Allah)? What do they do?

* avoid usury 3:130
* fear Hell 3:131
* obey Allah & his Messenger 3:132
* march forth 3:133
* 3:134
o spend in Allah's cause
+ charity
o repress anger
o pardon men
* ask forgiveness for sin 3:135

One of these terms arouses suspicion; lets take a closer look at it.

* 9:38. O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allah (i.e. Jihad) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world as compared with the Hereafter.
* 9:41. March forth, whether you are light (being healthy, young and wealthy) or heavy (being ill, old and poor), strive hard with your wealth and your lives in the Cause of Allah. This is better for you, if you but knew.

Could this be related to those who fight in rows? Lets look a little deeper into Surah As-Saff and see.

* 61:9. He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad ) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islamic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammed ) hate (it).

61:10. O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment.

61:11. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know!

61:12. (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn ­ Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success.

61:13. And also (He will give you) another (blessing) which you love, help from Allah (against your enemies) and a near victory. And give glad tidings (O Muhammad ) to the believers.



Who are the ­Muttaqun, loved by Allah?

* 2:177. It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and each and every act of obedience to Allah, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masakin (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and gives the Zakat, and who fulfill their covenant when they make it, and who are As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.) in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of fighting (during the battles). Such are the people of the truth and they are Al­Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2).
o believes
o gives
o fulfill contracts
o patient
+ in poverty
+ in disease
+ in fighting

Allah loves those who are patient in fighting, who march forth & fight in his cause with their wealth and their lives; who fight in ranks. Allah also loves those who obey him and his Messenger. Did Allah command them to fight?

* 9:29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

If Allah loves Jews, Christians, Sabeans, Samaritans & Zoroastrians, why does he command his slaves to make war on them until they are all subjugated and make annual extortion payments? Could it be that Allah does not love sinners, that he hates them or is, at best indifferent towards them?

* The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'Allah, the Blessed, the Exalted, created Adam. Then He stroked his back with His right hand, and progeny issued from it. He said, "I created these for the Garden and they will act with the behaviour of the people of the Garden." Then He stroked his back again and brought forth progeny from him. He said, "I created these for the Fire and they will act with the behaviour of the people of the Fire." 'A man said, 'Messenger of Allah! Then of what value are deeds?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, answered, 'When Allah creates a slave for the Garden, he makes him use the behaviour of the people of the Garden, so that he dies on one of the actions of the people of the Garden and by it He brings him into the Garden. When He creates a slave for the Fire, He makes him use the behaviour of the people of the Fire, so that he dies on one of the actions of the people of the Fire, and by it, He brings him into the Fire.' "[Malik's Muwatta Book 46, Number 46.1.2]

Now we learn that its a matter of predestination. One group created for Paradise, the other for the fire; each to behave with the conduct of those of their purpose. Could this perhaps be racially linked?

* Allah tells us that on the Day of Resurrection, some faces will be blackened and some will be whitened. The faces of those who followed splits and divisions will be blackened, and the faces of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jama`ah will be whitened. Allah says here: (And on the Day of Resurrection you will see those who lied against Allah) meaning, by their claims that He had partners or offspring. (their faces will be black.) means, because of their lies and fabrications. [The Consequences for Those Who tell Lies against Allah and for Those Who have Taqwa]

*

Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 21:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "When the people of Paradise will enter Paradise and the people of Hell will go to Hell, Allah will order those who have had faith equal to the weight of a grain of mustard seed to be taken out from Hell. So they will be taken out but (by then) they will be blackened (charred). Then they will be put in the river of Haya' (rain) or Hayat (life) (the Narrator is in doubt as to which is the right term), and they will revive like a grain that grows near the bank of a flood channel. Don't you see that it comes out yellow and twisted"

Visitor Tracker